Curse

ChaoticCoyote · Mar 14, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Fleeing AoE makes sense, and is little trouble if you bring snares and do careful aggro. In regular PvE, kiting AI monsters make the game more fun.

And yes, I do farm, and yes, it has become more challenging, but certainly not impossible. Of course, I don't farm with traditional builds in traditional areas... but I do make more than enough money to afford Vabbian armor and such luxuries.

MSecorsky · Mar 14, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

It's just better this way. I've never solo-farmed nor cared about the imaginary "wealth" people seem to crave in the game, so to me it's been nothing but a positive change which has enhanced gameplay. PvE is still too easy, but at least it's no longer cast meteor storm and wait to pick through the charred remains.

Curse You · Mar 14, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

I did farming before the update (both solo and group) and I still do farming now. Best part is, I do it just about as efficiently as before they made melee attackers disperse. All I did was adapt to the changes, by finding better stuff to farm.

You may not be able to easily 55 the UW anymore, but you've always been able to 3 man trap it. In fact, they seem to support trapper farming, with the new skills (trapper's speed) and buffs to skills (trappers focus, trappers speed).

So don't say that AreaNet doesn't want people to farm. They just want people to use their brain from time to time, rather than just using the same build all the time on the same things.

Orinn · Mar 14, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by blood4blood

Keeping in mind that change does not equal progress, I'd have to say the AI changes have been failures. They have not made PvE more difficult, more challenging, more interesting, or more fun. They have not stopped solo farming or gold-selling on eBay. They have encouraged people to use more PvP-style tactics (snaring, spiking, interrupting), they have not really brought anyone from PvE to PvP, nor have they actually made snaring/spiking/interrupting necessary (you can still simply out-damage the mobs in most areas without bothering with anything else).

What have the AI changes achieved? In combo with various skill "balances" they've made most of the AoE skills mostly useless for their basic purpose (AoE damage) but still mildly useful for another purpose (aggro control/tactical manipulation of mobs). *shrug* Nothing that cannot be or hasn't been addressed successfully by players, but still -- I cannot honestly say that any of the AI changes have improved the game at all. At most they've made certain mobs take longer to kill, and at worst, they've run roughshod over a core profession (Elementalist), an entire class of skills spanning many professions (AoE damage), and driven away many players who didn't want to bother adapting.

Overall, I'd say the AI changes have been a waste of programming time and reflect poor choices by Anet. Yes, Anet's intentions have always appeared to be to discourage solo farming and to make PvE more like PvP/attract more PvE players into PvP. They've utterly failed at both, and only managed to get people upset with unnecessary changes that have done absolutely nothing to improve gameplay. I love this game, but seriously - the AI changes have been just plain moronic ever since November '05.

This is my impression as well. It makes fights take longer, is essentially all it does. PvE fights haven't gotten harder, farming hasn't gotten harder. All that the changes have added is a level of frustration and boredom. Farming runs that used to take 10 minutes now take 30, with no change in tactics. This really doesn't "improve" anything. It just takes what was a grind to begin with and makes it even more of one.

rohara · Mar 14, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

i've never been a big fan of the AI change. it made aoe spells in pve pretty pointless.

and i'll never understand why people hate farmers so much...if it weren't for farmers, everything in the game would be more expensive. people should be thanking the farmers for making things so readily available - they make things affordable for everyone.

Loviatar · Mar 14, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

i've never been a big fan of the AI change. it made aoe spells in pve pretty pointless.

and i'll never understand why people hate farmers so much...if it weren't for farmers, everything in the game would be more expensive. people should be thanking the farmers for making things so readily available - they make things affordable for everyone.

that is such a steaming pile it needs correction.

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

the average things an average player could have fun with are salvaged to make room for high end stuff .

EVERY CHANGE that brought down prices for most of us were bitterly fought by the farmers.

obviously you missed the good old days before guaranteed rune salvage and rune traders when even minor runes were 1-5k

superior absorbs were 100k until they increased the drop rate.

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

farmers only put more gold into the economy leading to bidding wars and inflation.

these farmers do not lower the prices for us they raise them.

Drazaar · Mar 14, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I havent felt too bad about the farming beyond minor annoyences that can be easilly overcome.

For me the AI changes that DO bug me is what they did to the henches and such. If you playing a caster, im fine with how the monsters will try to run for you first since your a squishy caster, makes sense. What I dont like about the AI change is how when im forced to flee my position from the monsters cause there all on me my entire hero hench party breaks to follow, often leaving me to either flee the whole fight or stop and be the weak punching bag a caster is and hope the monks can keep me up long enough for the whole mob to be killed or watch as the hench then AGAIN get super stupid and scatter attack targets.

I can deal with the farming change but thats the AI change that really urks me.

wsmcasey · Mar 14, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

Everyone that has an item to sell tries to get as much as they can for their item. You are correct that farmers go after the high value items, but once the items have been over farmed they start to loose value. This ultimately lowers the prices, especially for green items that are over farmed.

Drazaar · Mar 14, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

that is such a steaming pile it needs correction.

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

the average things an average player could have fun with are salvaged to make room for high end stuff .

EVERY CHANGE that brought down prices for most of us were bitterly fought by the farmers.

obviously you missed the good old days before guaranteed rune salvage and rune traders when even minor runes were 1-5k

superior absorbs were 100k until they increased the drop rate.

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

farmers only put more gold into the economy leading to bidding wars and inflation.

these farmers do not lower the prices for us they raise them.

Not true its all based on supply and demand. All those things the farmer could do back then because there wasnt enough supply to the player demand, but as we watch the more that goes out there the lower the price became because supply is a lot more to the demand for those items.

Farmers farming those items means that there are some to be put on the market for people to buy cause they dont want to work as hard to get it. The more the farmers get that item the more they have to compete against each other to get the buyer hence they have to lower there prices to entice the buyers to them over the others.

An example is the simple Factions greens. Back when factions was new and farmers were still finding there places they could charge upwards to 40K cause the item was new and there wasnt a lot of em circulating. However as farmers continued to farm those greens that item became more available so they couldnt charge as much and look where faction greens are now. Most sell now for 5 to 10K because the farmers have farmed that green so much there easy to find on the market.

As long as a farmer continues to have the ability to farm the greens they will take there time to farm them and put them in the market. They spend there time to get that item well you decide to simply play. You pay them for there time spent and bit of luck and both get what they want.

However if you denied the farmers there access to farming rare items will become that much rarer and in such an obscene manner that farmers could charge you an arm, a leg, your left nut and your first born child because they know they can because there are simply none of those items circulating in the market.

In the end its the opposite you deny the farmers a chance to farm and the prices of items will over inflate untill the econmy is simply destroyed because nothing is circulating anymore. Give farmers there chance to farm and items prices continue to drop as more and more of that item continue to circulate.

Lonesamurai · Mar 14, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

I still don't see how people find it fun fighting enemies that set like magnets on the first guy to aggro them while an Ele nukes the living shit out of them - or they kill themselves hitting said tank from skills like SS, and they just stand there and die.

because people are stupid loki, you already know this

rohara · Mar 14, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

that is such a steaming pile it needs correction.

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

the average things an average player could have fun with are salvaged to make room for high end stuff .

EVERY CHANGE that brought down prices for most of us were bitterly fought by the farmers.

obviously you missed the good old days before guaranteed rune salvage and rune traders when even minor runes were 1-5k

superior absorbs were 100k until they increased the drop rate.

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

farmers only put more gold into the economy leading to bidding wars and inflation.

these farmers do not lower the prices for us they raise them.

Drazaar pretty much summed it up correctly, but dude...are you living in the past or what? you could use to learn a thing or two about inflation and supply/demand. you've got it all backwards.

farmers farm all kinds of things, not just high end items. and even the high end items become cheaper when farmed - just like everything else. take the IDS, for example. time is a big influence as well. of course when a game/chapter is new, rare stuff is going to cost an arm and a leg. but after some time and when even casual players attain those items by themselves, the price drops considerably because they aren't rare anymore. when NF first came out, i saw people selling those common greens (like mindclouder, zelnehun's, skybringer) for 30-50k+ and now, thanks to farmers, they're 5-10k a pop. supply became greater than the demand, that's how it works and that's what brings down prices. and runes...who do you think sells the most runes/insignias to the rune trader? farmers, because they have bigger fish to fry and won't waste time trying to sell a 500g rune for 400g. its small potatoes. and, if you don't know, the more supply the rune trader has, the cheaper the item becomes. same with materials.

more supply = cheaper stuff for everyone. the only things that remain "high-end" are items that can't be farmed or can't be farmed easily.

reetkever · Mar 14, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I don't really care about the farm update anymore...

I'm only online a few minutes per day now, got nothing else to do and most of my friends and guild already quit gw after NF came out.

Farming nerfs ftl

The Ernada · Mar 14, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Wow. Only here can you see farmers demanding appreciation with the claim that they make things affordable. Some things are affordable not because farmers farm them out of the goodness of their hearts for us, but because those items were easy to obtain to begin with. When the average joe can get it himself without much trouble then it undercuts the efforts of the farmer trying to make a profit of that same item.

So where are these farmers that are farming crystallines so that they could be more affordable?

Bryant Again · Mar 14, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Anything that makes me do something other than "tab-space" is good in my book.

Of course, that's just for warriors. I'm sure there's a numerical key combo other classes have to do.

But seriously, PvE just is not challenging when you get to that certain point in your Guild Wars career. It's the most challenging thing to happen for me in PvE ever since I covered my screen with my compass.

Rhedd · Mar 14, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Lots of talk about farming adding or subtracting items from the economy, but not much recognition of the other effect farming has on things...

Pretend there were NO farmers, just people who played the game through "normally", experiencing the plot, and not obsessing.

Obviously some items would then be SUPER rare. Could the people with those items charge insane prices for them, then? Well, they could, but nobody in the entire world would be able to buy it, so it wouldn't matter.

Don't start talking to me about Ebay gold. That's a whole other kettle of fish, and only barely relevant.

People who hardcore farm get far more money than "normal" players, and their willingness to spend that money means that prices CAN skyrocket, and people will still pay them.

Inflation only works when there's someone out there physically capable of paying the price.

Brian the Gladiator · Mar 14, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviator

that is such a steaming pile it needs correction.

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

the average things an average player could have fun with are salvaged to make room for high end stuff .

EVERY CHANGE that brought down prices for most of us were bitterly fought by the farmers.

obviously you missed the good old days before guaranteed rune salvage and rune traders when even minor runes were 1-5k

superior absorbs were 100k until they increased the drop rate.

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

farmers only put more gold into the economy leading to bidding wars and inflation.

these farmers do not lower the prices for us they raise them.

Wow... that is quite possibly the most ignorant thing i have ever read in my life. Holy crap!!!

Ork Pride · Mar 14, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

that is such a steaming pile it needs correction.

farmers go after the high value items and sell them for as much as they can get for them.

the average things an average player could have fun with are salvaged to make room for high end stuff .

EVERY CHANGE that brought down prices for most of us were bitterly fought by the farmers.

obviously you missed the good old days before guaranteed rune salvage and rune traders when even minor runes were 1-5k

superior absorbs were 100k until they increased the drop rate.

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

farmers only put more gold into the economy leading to bidding wars and inflation.

these farmers do not lower the prices for us they raise them.

Ever take a class that has economy involved in it? I think you need to all over again, even if you already took a class about it, take it again.

reetkever · Mar 14, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Wow. Only here can you see farmers demanding appreciation with the claim that they make things affordable. Some things are affordable not because farmers farm them out of the goodness of their hearts for us, but because those items were easy to obtain to begin with. When the average joe can get it himself without much trouble then it undercuts the efforts of the farmer trying to make a profit of that same item.

So where are these farmers that are farming crystallines so that they could be more affordable?

You can't farm crystallines.

Only weapons that are uber expensive, are the ones who cannot be farmed. Like Crystallines, Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars etcetera.

And about the avarage joe thing... Avarage Joe has everything in this game already? Cheap armor, cheap perfect weapons, cheap experience, cheap cool skins, and the list goes on.

Farmers, on the other hand, have about nothing to collect cash for. Maybe a few cool weapon skins, and FoW armor, but that's it. Some people say that farmers are spoilt, with 15^50 req 8 goldies, but they worked for it, while most people get their stuff practically for free.

BlackSephir · Mar 14, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Wow, monsters running away... their will to live... damn, why would they ran, soooo strange...
I mean, c'mon, it would be much more better if every monster would slith its throat and still drop black dyes, sup runes and gold... But instead they're running

I cant see where this is going...

And when 55 monk would enter dis everyone should /kneel and /bow

Quote:

I'm only online a few minutes per day now, got nothing else to do and most of my friends and guild already quit gw after NF came out.

Farming nerfs ftl

Tibia time?

Coloneh · Mar 14, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Why did A-net change the AI so that it runs away from SoJ, VwK, and SS?

enemies dont run from VwK and SS